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 Post subject: Problems Noted List
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 3:27 pm 
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Found one possible minor problem that we may want to watch for as we play more maps
to see if it showing up on those maps or just the two I posted.

Start Line flags appear to be blue and gray but they also seem to be backwards with the
blue flags for the CSA and the Grey ones for the Union.

If we can swap them we may want to do that just to keep it looking good.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 10:08 am 
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The flags are permanently assigned for Player One and Player Two: Blue for One, Grey for Two.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 2:59 pm 
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Iif that is the case then we should attempt to keep the Union in slot one and doing the game
set up. This along with the Nations selections of US for Union and Germany for the CSA
will make it more or less right anyway. The game is going to want to put the Union on the
left and the CSA on the right as far as map making is concerned. Unless we force it.
I don't think forcing it is a wise idea. It's better to let the game have it's way on this one.
That should eliminate most of the map making issues that could come up.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 11:44 pm 
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The only issue with keeping Union as P1 is that P1 always moves first, so any CS assault gives the US player a turn of "diggin' in" that the CS player won't get if on the defense.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 1:56 am 
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Unless there are other reasons, I don't see why the color of the deployment flags makes a rat's arse bit 'o difference. We only see the flags briefly anyway, not worth forcing one side to be P1 over something like that.

Union won't always be on the left. In my current one, 1863, CSA is on the left.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 2:34 am 
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My only point is which side is expected to be in slot one on which side does
make a difference in making a map.

I suggest we set a standard for this so we can avoid having map problems pop up
The union is now listed as USA and the CSA is Germany and the Indians are Russian
so we are just asking to see maps get backwards on us unless we are careful.
I suggest we put the Union in slot one and on the left which is the normal spot for
them and this will allow us to keep the same methods of map making we would use
for a WW II game so that we do not add another map editor quirk to the mix.

So you could say those two maps I posted are designed backwards.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 11:42 am 
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NotAToy wrote:
My only point is which side is expected to be in slot one on which side does
make a difference in making a map.

I suggest we set a standard for this so we can avoid having map problems pop up
The union is now listed as USA and the CSA is Germany and the Indians are Russian
so we are just asking to see maps get backwards on us unless we are careful.
I suggest we put the Union in slot one and on the left which is the normal spot for
them and this will allow us to keep the same methods of map making we would use
for a WW II game so that we do not add another map editor quirk to the mix.

So you could say those two maps I posted are designed backwards.

:red: And now I see that the map I posted is backwards too :red:
Can it be fixed?

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sun Jun 28, 2009 12:55 pm 
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Ok, with only the loss of one handful of hair, I fixed the map and reposted it.
It will work only for the dates shown in it's text file and in the post.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Jul 21, 2009 12:00 am 
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Since we have no air strike units, there's no way to check the weather during the purchase phase (by seeing if air strike units are available for clear weather), I have this suggestion:

We could put a dummy unit in each of the OOBs called "weather check" (or something like that) and make it strike aircraft classed, then if it was purchaseable, we would know the weather was clear beforehand. This would save time and having to re-start battles to get the desired weather.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems Noted List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:27 pm 
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Weather Check added to US and Reb OOBs. Pull out your Almanac...

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 Post subject: Re: Problems Noted List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:38 pm 
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Rebel Weather Check caused lock up Black screen of doom

Baggage Trains are wagons with no carry capacity assumed that was intended.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems Noted List
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:39 pm 
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Weather unit Almanac has no Icon assigned...probably the cause. Will have to stick something in for it.
On the Baggage Wagon trains: Yes, they were intended to have no carrying capacity, as they were built to be a "target" for enemy attack or friendly defense. One of the test scenarios for the original CW work involved (IIRC) a Union force delaying a Rebel cavalry attack while simultaneously exiting their baggage train across the river. I don't want folks to start buying wagons and loading uip their infantry, making 19th Century "mech infantry"...

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 Post subject: Re: Problems Noted List
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 11:36 am 
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Weather check still causes crash since no Icon is in it. You might have to put a weapon in
it too. So it makes the game think there is a purpose for the unit.

I did some range shooting here and put units 6 hexes apart.

Almost every shot scored a hit and kills. and that was with hitting at 60 and inf toughness at 150
rout/rally was at 200 Country training off Nat char off and set to 50. It turns into a shoot if you
want too I will just rally and keep coming. The units are also breaking with a larger number of men
in them. Which is not really a problem just seems like waste when they disperse and there is no longer
a way to rally them in the rear and bring them back to the fight.

The numbers in the Prefs are just too large to make further adjustments we are off the scale.
I think part of the problem is the number of men in the unit almost gives them a sure hit and kill

I would like to see it scaled back down to smaller units and more of them. To give us the proper
size of these units.

And while not a problem for me since I will do a search on a weapon to see what the heck I am
getting when I buy a unit. The shear number of weapons choices is only going to aggravate a lot
of potential players. Maybe just consolidate some of the muskets so that each and every weapon
stands out as something different.

We also have a range disparity with the South coming up short. They are going to have to be on
guard of Union players stopping short of the lines and opening up on them, This will force the South
to come out of a prepared position and charge the Union troops if they want to be able to shoot at
them. This is going to be a problem if you expect the South to be in defend stance and they have
the wrong weapons. Its sort of game over before it starts.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems Noted List
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 12:51 pm 
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Latest updated OOBs should have Almanac with an Icon and a weapon. Could be the Icon (I used the ammunition one, maybe the code won't allow icons from certain SHP files), maybe it's the weapon (chose a basic Infantry one, probably has to be an aircraft-specific weapon class). Have to look into that this weekend.

Reducing the # of men per unit is ok, except it changes the overall scale of the Mod: instead of regiments and brigades, we'll be back to companies and battalions. In other words, the game's "company" formation would be a "regiment", with 3 or 4 "companies" (platoons) in it. It'll mean players will have to build the basic "brigade" from regiment...not a bad thing, but it does change the way I envisioned the unit structures.

The reduction would then be, what, a "squad" of 25-30 men? Figure 3-5 per "company" in the period, anywhere from 75 to 150 men.

On the weapons and range, the South DID have a range disparity, because it wasn't as well armed early in the war as the North. And if you lok at the ranges of most of the weapons on both sides, they have similar ranges; for example, the .58cal Union rifles have the same range as the Reb Pulaski and Lamb rifles. I could combine a few, but the stats for most of them are different from one another; it might only be in the Accuracy, or the range, but they aren't all the same. I do need to add a few more Union small arms into the Rebel OOB and set up additional units armed with them.

I don't see the dispersal as a problem; larger crews are going to disperse with more men still left in the unit, and we can't change that. Smaller units will help, since the number of "disappearing" men will be smaller, but the dispersal threshold will remain the same. Possibly increasing the Experience levels will mitigate this, since it is known that Elite units tend to "stick around" longer.

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 Post subject: Re: Problems Noted List
PostPosted: Sat Mar 13, 2010 1:35 pm 
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FlashfyreSP wrote:

Reducing the # of men per unit is ok, except it changes the overall scale of the Mod: instead of regiments and brigades, we'll be back to companies and battalions. In other words, the game's "company" formation would be a "regiment", with 3 or 4 "companies" (platoons) in it. It'll mean players will have to build the basic "brigade" from regiment...not a bad thing, but it does change the way I envisioned the unit structures.

The reduction would then be, what, a "squad" of 25-30 men? Figure 3-5 per "company" in the period, anywhere from 75 to 150 men.


I know that the change in scale is not something you really want to do. But I think in terms of
what players are going to want to play with using " this" game, it is going to be more popular.
The real fun is in the smaller battles not the strategic level thinking of the larger formations.
The players expect shooting and lots of it. They want to move stuff around on a smaller scale.

Rather then the company being 1 squad of 150 or so men with an HQ. I think it would be better
if it was broken down into at least 3 or 4 smaller platoons. So that even at company level play
there is some maneuver involved inside the formation.

One of the scenarios I see making involves a few companies laying in wait for a Union column to
approach the plantation. Not going to be much fun if you only have 6 or 8 units to move around
it will be a lot more fun if your moving 30 or so units around.

FlashfyreSP wrote:
On the weapons and range, the South DID have a range disparity, because it wasn't as well armed early in the war as the North. And if you lok at the ranges of most of the weapons on both sides, they have similar ranges; for example, the .58cal Union rifles have the same range as the Reb Pulaski and Lamb rifles. I could combine a few, but the stats for most of them are different from one another; it might only be in the Accuracy, or the range, but they aren't all the same. I do need to add a few more Union small arms into the Rebel OOB and set up additional units armed with them.


I do see this as a problem. It is going to cause a lot of problems unless players are told that it
can happen if they try to do some things with the wrong weapons. They are not going to take
the time to figure it out. They will need to be told or they will just dump it and go back to business
as normal. Bitching and complaining about something they are to lazy or stupid to figure out.
If we leave it as is. We are going to have to explain it. Cause only a few of them will figure it out.

FlashfyreSP wrote:
I don't see the dispersal as a problem; larger crews are going to disperse with more men still left in the unit, and we can't change that. Smaller units will help, since the number of "disappearing" men will be smaller, but the dispersal threshold will remain the same. Possibly increasing the Experience levels will mitigate this, since it is known that Elite units tend to "stick around" longer.


There is nothing we can do about the dispersal except make it harder to disperse a company or
larger sized formation by giving it more units to have to take out. This is a draw back of going
to large on the formations we have now. Rather then lose a portion of a company you lose the
whole thing. You end up with a bunch of HQ's and horses standing around looking for something
to command.

I also think raising the Exp to higher levels is a mistake. We want these guys to run more then
stand in the hole and die. This would give us some relief from the problem of not being able to
rally a shattered command and put it back in the line. I think we want to see the HQ take off
at a gallop to go round up the shattered units to get them to go back and fight. We want to see
the units run from the field so we can chase them down with a mounted charge, sabers gleaming
and all that.

We also have to get back to more reasonable levels in prefs numbers. We are looking at needing
to go higher then we can go and that makes even the highest setting not high enough.

I think we need to take the base exp and morale in the mech down to the 50 or 60 level and use
the elite tag to make some of the better trained and disciplined units function better.
and by using the emplacements like the Hospital and Command tents to boost morale.
I think by doing that we will have more wiggle room in the prefs settings to tweak it.

Basically I am starting to think I can not give you a set of prefs with what we have now that will
work. The units just do not play the same with this many men shooting primary weapons in one
shot. The game wants to give us 6 kills a hit at 150 inf toughness and 60 hitting. That is only going
to make for a turn or two of shooting or fire from more then one unit to send a company to the
grave yard never to return to the fight.

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