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Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 13 posts ] 

Should the various train units be mobile?
Poll ended at Wed Apr 14, 2010 8:33 pm
Yes, we have to have train raids and stuff. 33%  33%  [ 1 ]
Yes, but only for designers. 67%  67%  [ 2 ]
No, they make perfectly fine targets sitting in railyards. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
No opinion either way. 0%  0%  [ 0 ]
Total votes : 3
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 Post subject: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 8:33 pm 
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Some info that might be of interest concerning this question:
  1. The various train units can be classed as any vehicle, but the tank types seem best.
  2. They can be given a Speed, or this can be left as "0" and be immobile.
  3. If given movement, the type of movement will depend on the Unit Class: tank classes will use Tracked, for example.
  4. Unless maps with railroads are specifically designed to prevent it, mobile train units will be able to "go cross-country", provided the terrain is allowed by their movement class.

I found in SPWAW that when designing a map with railroads on it, for use by mobile train units, the 2 adjacent hexes to the railroad "path" must be set with terrain that is impassable to the various train Unit Classes; for example, the Engine was classed as a Heavy Tank, which meant using Boulders on either side of the rail line. With the right classes, this could be a simple process; Wheeled classes offer the best approach, since the terrain costs are highest for this type, and there are more impassable terrains available.

On the down side, not every map is going to be "cross-country proof", which means players will be free (unless agreed upon) to move these units all over the map.

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Wed Apr 07, 2010 9:16 pm 
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I see no good coming from allowing players to make trains move. The fact they can not be forced
to follow a path in the order in which they are placed on the track and the requirements of the rail
layout make it a designer function if they want to make trains move. It simply is not something
that most designers will even want to mess with once they try to make it happen.

Even under designer control shooting and killing the engine does not stop the rest of the train from
rolling on its way. You can't even stop one to rob it properly. So they might as well be made in
a static manner.

Players should not be allowed to buy any part of a train for use in play other then static units and
even those should be placed on a track or near a rail yard area.

While we can not control stupid I would not want to see armed rail cars used in the middle of a
prairie or desert where no rail lines were nearby.

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 1:33 am 
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Static, but with a moveable option for designers only.
For general games, I can't see enough benefit to outweigh the cross-country problems.

However, if a designer wanted to take the time to craft a train raid scenario with a moving
train it would be cool to give them the tools to make it happen.

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:52 am 
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The only way a train is going to be workable is to make it a really big icon like the ships where it takes
up a few hexes worth of space but is really just one unit. But I can't see any way to stop one short of
killing it or having a preset terrain tile block the path of the train as it moves down the "track" that has
to be made for it to run in.

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:35 am 
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Make the tracks water and the train ships. That way the train can only travel down the river of steel. That will also impede certain units from crossing the tracks.

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:57 pm 
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junk2drive wrote:
Make the tracks water and the train ships. That way the train can only travel down the river of steel. That will also impede certain units from crossing the tracks.

Good idea, but for the fact that the 2 hexes adjacent would be Shallow Water, which won't allow some terrain to be placed on it (like buildings), and that the "look" would be all wrong.

I think I'll make them immobile, but with all the stats necessary should a designer "add" movement to them during scenario editing, such as Carry Capacity.

I am giving them all some "armour" values, to prevent them from being destroyed by a musket "hit"...until we get around to developing the armour system, they'll be pretty much invulnerable, at least the enclosed Boxcar, Caboose, and Locomotive units. The various flat car types are all "open topped", with no armour other than their Hulls, so they will be more likely to be KO'd from fire. Of course, testing them might result in some changes to this... :anger:

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:58 pm 
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You'll have to put some torches or some kind of armor-penetrating devices in raiding units. Also brings to mind Sherman's bummers and Forrest's cavalry and Mosby's partisans, tearing up railroad tracks wherever they went. Mike and I were discussing the naval aspect of this mod last night, and I've been salivating just thinking of the possibilities this mod affords. I think, at least on my part, many people were too hung up on what we couldn't change rather than what we can do :teeth:

Hey, did you figure out a solution to the bayonet issue?


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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 6:05 pm 
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Here's an interesting story...
http://www.korns.org/misc/Civil-War-Armored-Trains.htm

I don't know if I'll keep all the train units armoured or not...the locomotive for sure, the others will depend. Altho, in the article at the link, reference is made to a musket-proof boxcar; I think we can do that with a simple armour of "1", which won't stop any of the cannons (who I hope to see have penetrations of 5 or more).

The thing I want to avoid, though, is the ease of KO'ing a boxcar or flat car by simply firing muskets at it; as an unarmoured unit, it will "brew up" like trucks do in SPWAW, from regular rifle fire. I don't think we need to destroy the cars to "defeat" the train, just make the crews abandon them. Trouble with trying to build raiders is that the flame weapons are just as destructive to infantry as to vehicles and homes; might have to try a flame weapon with little or no HE Kill and just a Penetration value.

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 7:11 pm 
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That is cool :)

There was also a rail gun used at the battle of Galveston. Actually just a self-propelled howitzer, encased in oak timbers for protection.


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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 8:13 pm 
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Matt8683 wrote:
That is cool :)

There was also a rail gun used at the battle of Galveston. Actually just a self-propelled howitzer, encased in oak timbers for protection.


Got a pic of it for use with the Ordnance Car. :wink:

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:16 pm 
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Isn't there also a famous picture of a mortar on a rail car?


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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:48 pm 
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http://www.corbisimages.com/Enlargement/IH079557.html

Am I the only one who uses Google Images to find pictures of stuff?

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 Post subject: Re: Should trains be mobile or stationary?
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:55 pm 
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Nope.

http://alkemscalemodels.net/Battles/Pet ... inal1W.jpg

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