STEEL PANTHERS ENHANCED // NORTH AFRIKA

Dedicated site for the SP: Enhanced, North Afrika, American Civil War, and Vietnam mods. Hosted by freeforums.org
It is currently Thu Jun 22, 2017 4:28 pm

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]



Welcome
WELCOME TO THE STEEL PANTHERS ENHANCED & NORTH AFRIKA MODS FORUM.

You are currently viewing our boards as a Guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community, you will have

* access to post topics and messages
* communicate privately with other members (PM)
* respond to polls
* upload content
* access many other special features and forum areas


Registration is fast, simple, and absolutely free, so please, join us and take advantage of the benefits the Steel Panthers Enhanced community has to offer you.


Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next
Author Message
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 5:39 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Combat Information Center, Sir!
Ok, if we have to move on the naval stuff, that's going to add more in the way of icons, pics and sounds. I have started looking into this already, in case we had some "free time"...more on that in the Naval Gazing thread.

I have already done the Ranks changes in the Mech; its not perfect, but now you get a Brigadier General (BrG) for the A0, a Colonel (Col) for a Regimental formation commander, either a Captain (Cpt) or a Major (Maj) for Company formations (captains for infantry-based formatkions, majors for vehicle-based ones), and a 2nd Lieutenant for all the sub units in a command (used to be Sergeants).

Am looking at the Leader Names and not liking what I see: because we shifted the nations, the Union is now all Chinese names, many of which are 3-letter ones (Cho, Hon, Wen, etc). These are going to be impossible to rename; how many English/French/German names are there with only 3 letters? Since the reason for switching nations was to simplify the Battle Generator system, I went back and tested some other combinations of nations that 1)used different icons sets, 2)had longer leader names, and 3)kept the same mapsides regardless of Player 1/Player 2 settings or year. I have found another combo that fits all 3 criteria: France vs Hungary. The French OOBs use the Allied icons, the Hungarians use the Axis; leader names in each are both longer and some are viable for either Union or Confederate (lots of Cajuns in the South, many Germans/Hungarians/other East Europeans in the Union); France is always on the left side, Hungary on the right. This will put the Native Americans back into the Soviet OOB, so they will use the brown Communist icon set.
The leader name change isn't going to be as difficult as previously thought; it will be tedious, since there are a lot of names in each nation's group, but each group is run in alphabetical order; once the grouping is identified from a sampling taken from within the game, it should be easy enough to mark the start and finish, then start renaming. I am willing to do this part, unless someone volunteers for it. :chew:

_________________
"I Can Haz Cheezburgr?" :taz:
Image..Image..Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 8:51 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Playing In the Sandbox
The catch to the French is the oob shift to the Free French oobs in 43.
that means a duplicate set of oobs has to be done. To account for it.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:16 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Combat Information Center, Sir!
NotAToy wrote:
The catch to the French is the oob shift to the Free French oobs in 43.
that means a duplicate set of oobs has to be done. To account for it.

Yep. Not a big deal, since I can clone the OOBs with one of my editors, and change the nation across the board. But, it will mean another edit of the various flag SHP files, and having to add the extra flag in for the Free Frnech. And, re-hacking the OOB Editor and the Mech...so before I do it, I want to be sure that these are going to be the best OOBs to use.

_________________
"I Can Haz Cheezburgr?" :taz:
Image..Image..Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:30 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Sat Jan 12, 2008 4:11 am
Posts: 145
Location: Michigan
All I can do is stand here with my jaw hanging open :bow:

THANK YOU !!!

_________________
Image...Image...Image...Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Mon Apr 19, 2010 9:49 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Playing In the Sandbox
You may not be able to change the names of the men doing that. IF it uses a different list.
Even one space could screw up a copy and paste of the hacked names list. We could be
seeing a set of English sounding names all go French in 43 if it does use a separate set of
names. I would think they didn't do that but since they have done some other silly things
I would not be surprised to learn that this sort of thing would happen.

The other concern is the National Characteristics of using a Major nation vs a Minor. The
French had Ammo loading rules that will effect land combat. I have no problem with the
Indians being given a major nation like Russia or Japanese since they would both be well
suited to the Indians using a different approach to combat then the white mans warriors.

We can just stick with China and call everyone JOE Number one GI. Love you Long time :lol:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 4:59 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Combat Information Center, Sir!
As long as I use the same number of characters in the name, it works. The hard part is going to be generating a cross-check list, with the original names and their replacements listed so as to keep everything orderly. Once I have lists of names that correspond to the character limits, it's just a matter of making the edits.
With the second French OOB, I will have to edit the French name set first, then use the game to test whether the second uses the same name list, or another.
As for the National Characteristics, I thought we were turning that Preference OFF, since the two sides are of the same "national characteristic" group? With it off, the Major/Minor thing won't be an issue.

_________________
"I Can Haz Cheezburgr?" :taz:
Image..Image..Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 5:39 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Playing In the Sandbox
With it off the balance of the game play is in the hands of the players who will have to
set the numbers since the mech is not going to do that anymore. If that is going to be
the case the game will be done as soon as you guys have the oobs and icon work done.

There would be little need to test it other then to make sure things go boom when you
pull the trigger. I was under the impression we decided to turn it back on if we could
find ways to make the oobs work. Which was when we switched to the ones now in
use because of the color set of the Icons and map side flipping issue. Then the issue
of the names came up and we started to look into those. Now we are back where
we started since the current set doesn't work if we want the names fixed.

I would like to see the names make better sense and I defiantly would like to avoid
the map flipping stuff as much as I want to see Stug spin avoided in the shipping.
But I think we also want to avoid turning the balance of the land combat effects
over to the players who we already know will make a mess of it since they are of the
mind that they know more then anyone else how they want to play the game and that
we could not possible have done enough testing to warrant the settings we recommend
they use. After all there is no need to test them they just know they can do better.
This very thing is what prompted me to leave the Depot. To many morons too few left
with intelligence worth talking too. I already know that they will say the Exp and Morale
are to low. They want to have super units to play with since it allows them to use bad
tactics.

France - Troops receive more ammunition and their ammunition trucks reload faster until
1943. They also suffer a greater chance to be out of contact by radio.

That is the French NC and while the ammo thing is an advantage that the Union might be
able to claim due to proximity to the depots and control of the Rails I doubt it would be
looked on as all that fair to the Southern players. But the biggie is the loss of Radio
which would effect the C&C system assuming you have put radios in and not removed them
completely. I think we sort of need to avoid any nation that is going to effect the C&C
system in any way.

I don't know what to tell you. I would like to see the bulk of the pref settings left in the
on position as much possible. I would like to see the Stug spin and map flipping not be
a factor. I would like to see the icons color issue be resolved and if possible the names
make sense. But of all of these the names are the least important to me. Those can be
changed by the players if they want to do it so I assume there is either more space then
we are seeing in the list or there is another data field someplace that holds player altered
names. I am going to go back and re-read the thread about the icon colors and then
give it some more thought. If I am still here today I will let you know what I think we
can do if not your going too have to decided what to do it with out me annoying you with
details.

:razz:

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:15 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Playing In the Sandbox
OK reading that stuff did not help much. Anyway. We need a list or spreadsheet here
that tells us what nations use what Icon set and notes to what side they want to be on
in each year (or other side flipping stuff.) And some idea of the NC they have if they
are major nations.

I would do this sort of list up if I knew how you tell what icon set they use. Since
the mod loads with altered ones how did you find out what was what?

A List of this sort could be useful for any stuff we look at doing in the future when
this is all done and we are bored again. Nam may his this same sort of Problem
and I am not sure my talks with Matt worked it out to the level we have at this
point with the CW mod. So Nam may need to be looked at again for this stuff.

p.s I have a sense of urgency with this since I anticipate getting whacked latter
today or tomorrow by the phone company.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:13 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Playing In the Sandbox
I keep coming back to USA as North and Germany as South with the Indians as Japan, that works
well with the USA to put the Indians on the Left side of the map. This does put the USA on the left
in the Desert when facing the South and the Italy and Europe maps made in Summer and Winter
would have them on the left also. We don't have a solid set to work with I don't think. I can't see
one that fits all the criteria that we want it to have. Something has got to be tossed out.

The only complaint I can see about the NC is that the Union would then have the .01 Arty delay
which I say so what too. It is not really that big of an advantage. If your plotting your Arty
the longer delay is not so painful. To get full use of the .01 delay you have to put the FO in
the front lines and if we have no FO unit that sort of eliminates that advantage. If you use
a scout or other unit to call it in you give up the .01 delay so whats the big deal. If you use
the A0 to get a bit of the delay reduction then you los quality of the fire and take a 50%
reduction in effectiveness. All in all the Fast artillery is not that big an advantage when you
have a nation that has to lean on its artillery to keep the enemy from rushing them as they
fall back rally and come forward again and again. (the USA will do that as part of the NC)

I again go back to tossing out the idea of letting players choose who does set up and is player 1
I would put the USA in slot one and Germany in Slot two in this case. Union does all set up and
if players want to swap it let them toggle the battle arrows and not move the nations to new slots.
Doing something like that helps freeze the map side swaps with the start and retreat hexes.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 6:24 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Combat Information Center, Sir!
Ok, first: the EXP and MOR numbers in the Mech are not tied to the National Characteristics; they are tied to the Country Training Pref. Turning off the NatChar doesn't stop the mech from using the numbers we put in. So without the NatChar preference, all the nations use the same artillery delay, the same rally calculations, the same combat formulas.

We can always go back to US-GE, with Indians in the Japan or Soviet OOB...

On the icon sets: There are 4 sets of infantry icons, 3 primary and 1 secondary. The 3 primary sets are Axis, Allied, and Communist (my names), with the secondary one Allied Desert. All OOBs that have been "tagged" in the code as Allied (or NATO, since the code was done for modern warfare) use Icon0011.SHP for infantry, MGs, cavalry, Inf-AT, Bicycle and Motorcycle units. All OOBs that have been "tagged" as Axis use Icon0010.SHP, while those OOBs "tagged" as Communist (Soviet Bloc or Warsaw Pact) use Icon0012.SHP. Icon0013.SHP is the desert version of the Allied OOBs. In the basic game, the Axis icons are grey, the Allied are green, the Communist are brown, and the desert are tan. The use of these by a particular OOB nation is not changeable; and use of 2 nations that share an Icon set will force the Player 2 one to use the desert icons.
All this is why I am looking to use a set of nations that are enemies, so the icons are displayed correctly.

_________________
"I Can Haz Cheezburgr?" :taz:
Image..Image..Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 7:16 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2008 6:44 pm
Posts: 464
Location: Playing In the Sandbox
Ok so I can see this icon set called in the oob editor or do I have to load a vanilla game
and go and look at each Nation? I am trying to make up some sort of list with the
data on each nation so that in the future if we have to go through this sort of thing
again we can just look at the chart and pick the ones we want.

Hopefully I will end up with a spread sheet that lists every nation with the icon set
they use the National characteristic and what map tendencies they have in each of the
theaters based on who they are paired with. Yes that seems like a insane task but
it's not like I have much else to do and with the loss of the internet soon I will have
even more time in which to increase my level of insanity. I can only read so much
about the failures of the Russian High command in the months before Germany
invaded. Too many Russian names.

_________________
Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 20, 2010 8:00 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Combat Information Center, Sir!
Nothing in the OOBs tells which icon set is used; you have to use the game itself, and try each OOB. I use the Scenario Editor, as it allows me to make changes without cancelling a whole battle and starting over. Oh, and don't worry, the icon sets never switch for a nation; they only use 1 set throughout the game period, regardless of which "side" they are on.

_________________
"I Can Haz Cheezburgr?" :taz:
Image..Image..Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Mon Apr 26, 2010 3:06 pm 
Offline
Assistant
User avatar

Joined: Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:27 am
Posts: 239
Location: Behind The Stone Wall
FlashfyreSP wrote:
The French OOBs use the Allied icons, the Hungarians use the Axis; leader names in each are both longer and some are viable for either Union or Confederate (lots of Cajuns in the South, many Germans/Hungarians/other East Europeans in the Union); France is always on the left side, Hungary on the right. This will put the Native Americans back into the Soviet OOB, so they will use the brown Communist icon set.
The leader name change isn't going to be as difficult as previously thought; it will be tedious, since there are a lot of names in each nation's group, but each group is run in alphabetical order; once the grouping is identified from a sampling taken from within the game, it should be easy enough to mark the start and finish, then start renaming. I am willing to do this part, unless someone volunteers for it. :chew:


re lots of Cajuns in the south - not true. The Cajuns were still an isolated minority in southwestern Louisiana during the Civil War, most of whom did not have any contact with the Anglo world and even fewer who spoke English. Numbers of them were drafted by the Confederate government but many proved unsuitable to army life. Many deserted at the first chance, and their commanders and fellow Anglo soldiers considered them inferior to even black folk. They spoke French, were Catholic, and were ignorant of the world outside their Cajun culture. This naturally drew racial animosity.

The Civil War, though a lot of it was fought all over Louisiana and in the heart of Acadiana, is still referred to by the Cajuns as 'La Guerre des Confederees' - the Confederates' War.

Having said all that, there were lots of Cajuns who served honorably. On my mother's side, Cajuns every one, a relative died at Vicksburg.

But to leave a number of French leader names based on this supposition would be inaccurate.

European, and especially German, names would be appropriate. Large numbers of Germans served on both sides, and many rose to high commands during the war.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:50 am 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Combat Information Center, Sir!
Not to worry, Matt...we're going back to the US-German-UK-Finland-Soviet group, which will make things easier for the name changes and other things.

_________________
"I Can Haz Cheezburgr?" :taz:
Image..Image..Image


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject: Re: Agenda
PostPosted: Tue Apr 27, 2010 12:29 pm 
Offline
Administrator
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jan 11, 2008 10:05 pm
Posts: 338
Location: Combat Information Center, Sir!
Ok, I'm almost done rearranging the OOBs and SHPs back to the US-German group; have to check to see that all the 'hacks' are done in both the Mech and the OOB Editor. Once I'm sure all the nation names are good, I will start on the Leader Name rewrite.

_________________
"I Can Haz Cheezburgr?" :taz:
Image..Image..Image


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 38 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3  Next

All times are UTC - 5 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Donate Now
Donate Now



Hosted by © 2017 FreeForums.org | Create a free forum | Powered by phpBB
About FreeForums | Legal | Advertise Here | Investors | Contact FreeForums.org
Report Violation

Design By Poker Bandits  

suspicion-preferred